Original broadcast 6/15/25
In a candid and far-reaching conversation on Fed Gov Today with Francis Rose, former Comptroller General of the United States David Walker addresses the Government Accountability Office’s 2025 High Risk List—and why its persistent problem areas reveal a more profound need for transformation in how government operates. As a long-time leader at GAO and now a reform advocate, Walker pulls no punches in calling for strategic, systemic change across federal agencies and in Congress.
Walker begins by acknowledging the longevity of many issues identified on the High Risk List. “There are a number of items on there that have been on there since the beginning,” he notes, referencing the list’s roots in the early 1990s. While the list continues to shine a spotlight on areas vulnerable to fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement, he believes it’s not enough. “You can start at the High Risk List, which is a good place to do it, but you can also look at areas like duplication, overlap, redundancy in government, improper payments—there’s a variety of things.”
Turning to the Department of Government Efficiency (Doge), Walker is clear-eyed about its limits. He describes the department’s current use of artificial intelligence to uncover inefficiencies as more transactional than transformational. “It’s way over-promised,” Walker asserts. “Rather than $160 billion in savings, it’s single digits in savings that’s been verified.” He emphasizes that deeper savings and real reform will require addressing mandatory and discretionary spending in tandem—a politically difficult, but fiscally necessary, challenge.
Walker sees Congress as both part of the problem and an essential part of the solution. “Congress is a lag indicator, and Congress focuses on the next election, not the next generation,” he says. His prescription? A statutory commission that engages the public in understanding the tough choices the country faces. He envisions a bipartisan framework, modeled in part on but stronger than Simpson-Bowles, that sets the stage for an up-or-down vote in Congress on reforms addressing spending, tax policy, and program priorities.
He doesn’t stop there. Walker calls for a constitutional amendment to limit federal debt as a percentage of GDP, following the examples set by countries like Switzerland, Sweden, and Germany. “It’s time that we do it,” he declares, pointing out that the United States still lacks a comprehensive government-wide strategic plan, despite being required to have one by law.
One of Walker’s central critiques is the government’s over-reliance on outdated systems and underdeveloped performance metrics. “The U.S. government has 1,000s of legacy, non-integrated information systems that don’t talk to each other,” he says, citing this lack of interoperability as a root cause of inefficiency. But before modernizing IT systems, Walker argues, agencies must first rationalize the processes those systems are built on. “You don’t want to take the current processes and automate them, because that’s a big part of the problem that we have right now.”
He recounts a personal experience with tax fraud—someone filed a fraudulent return in his name—to underscore the vulnerabilities of existing systems. “I brought it to the attention of the Commissioner of the IRS,” he says. “Most people don’t have that ability.” He uses this example to illustrate the broader stakes of digital and process modernization for the public.
Walker also addresses the prevalence of fraud in health care programs, a sector where he believes large-scale savings are possible. “That’s where the money is,” he says. While programs like Social Security may be structurally sound in terms of payments, health care fraud and improper billing continue to drain public resources.
Looking ahead, Walker emphasizes the need for outcome-based performance indicators in key areas like economic growth, national security, healthcare, education, and immigration. “In order to know how well you’re doing, you have to have outcome-based indicators. Are you making progress?” He argues that the U.S., despite leading in spending on healthcare and education, delivers below-average results—proof that more spending doesn’t equal better outcomes.
He proposes three guiding principles for government reform: properly designed incentives, adequate transparency, and appropriate accountability. “In many cases, for the U.S., we’re zero for three. That’s called a strikeout,” he says. “No wonder it’s not working.”
Walker’s message is clear: incremental changes and superficial fixes will not be enough. What’s needed is a comprehensive transformation—grounded in data, driven by strategy, and supported by the political courage to make hard choices. “We have to get back to basics, and I’m hoping we do before too long,” he concludes.